What follows is the contents of posts by James Wallis (formerly of Hogshead Publishing) and Garret Lepper, to the WFRP mailing list, concerning the long out-of-print Empire in Flames and James' intentions for the apparently doomed Empire in Chaos (which was planned by Hogshead under James to replace GW's Empire in Flames, but apparently got lost in a hard disk crash and never resurfaced).
These are posted on this site verbatim as copies of that posted to the mailing list, with as much sensitive data of those posting, and irrelevant email headers, removed as is possible and sensible. My intention here is merely to provide enough information for WFRP GMs who are unable to procure Empire in Flames to be able to construct an EiF-esque campaign climax for their players along the lines of either the original ending or the intended Empire in Chaos.
The following contains spoilers to the Enemy Within campaign, and those not wishing to see such potentially game spoiling material should not scroll down any further.
.
.
.
(spoilers follow)
.
.
.
(spoilers follow)
.
.
.
(spoilers follow)
.
.
.
(spoilers follow)
.
.
.
(spoilers follow)
.
.
.
(spoilers follow)
.
.
.
(spoilers follow)
.
.
.
(spoilers follow)
.
.
.
From: Garett Lepper <***@***>
To: <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:32:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [WFRP] Some Spoilers Please
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anvar" <***@***>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 9:53 AM
Subject: [WFRP] Some Spoilers Please
> Well, guess what campaign I started running recently. That's right,
> TEW. At the time I was a bit concerned that the final part was not
> yet in print but I thought, never mind, by the time we get there HH
> is bound to have printed it! You know the rest.
>
> So now I'm at something of a loose end. I still have a long way to go
> before we get there, but the chances of me getting hold of Empire in
> Flames is negligible and apparently it's fairly terrible.
Its bad reputation is undeserved. I enjoyed it and my players enjoyed
it. There are problems with it, but there are a lot of good bits and its not
too hard to bring the campaign to a suitable conclusion with it.
Comparing it to some of the stuff put out by GW, Flame, and HH, Empire
in Flames is better than Restless Dead, SRiK, Drachenfels, and the entire
Doomstones Camnpaign in my opinion.
> Having
> realised that I will have to do most of the writing, I would like to
> know two things. [1] What is the plot of Empire in Flames as it
> stands? I would like to know as much as possible so I can recreate at
> least some of it. Please give me spoilers.
I've posted this before:
As I recall it:
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
The characters are now members of "Todbringers" entourage. They carry
out some meagre missions for them that suggest tensions are increasing in
the Empire. The true shock is when the arrive at the capital on some errand
to discover that the atmosphere of the city is one of shock - the Emperor
has died! Blame is quickly apportioned to everyone - Ulricans are blamed for
assassinating the Emperor while the Sigmarites are Mutant Lovers. The
Emperor himself was a doddering idiot on his last legs thankful to his
doctor "from the Moon" who has helped him "recover".
Being political intrigue: Graf Boris Todbringer arrives at the capital,
very eager at the prospect of political intrigue. The players watch as
movers and shakers appear and plotting continues. The players are given a
place of honor in the Graf's entourage when the next Electorate meets to
decide who is the next Emperor - in this case the nominee is the Emperor's
idiot son often rumored to be a mutant - but how appears just fine if a bit
juvenile.
The voting begins... everyone votes for the Emperor's son until Graf
Boris who throws the rubber stamping procedure out of whack. Nobody can
believe it, and the Emperor elect throws a tantrum, yet Boris persists in
his refusal to recognize the new Emperor, suddenly, a transformation bursts
over Franz Josef's son and the Emperor's son suddenly betrays a whole series
of mutations and rips out the Graf's heart or throat or something. The
players leap over the table and bloodily dispatch the would be Emperor! The
court is in horror, a battle breaks out in the hall and the Graf's entourage
haul his body out as pandemonium breaks out! The Empire is in civil war.
The characters and the Graf entourage retreat to an Inn as battles wage
in the streets. Then a mysterious group arrives furtively at the inn... the
Arch Lector Kaslain who in conjunction with others feels that the only way
to unify the Empire is to return the hammer of Ghal Maraz to unify the
country. As war breaks out, the characters begin a secret mission to follow
in the footsteps of the Emperor Sigmar himself. However enemies are
mobilizing against them - the forces of chaos, witch hunters and priests.
Secretly boarding a ship they head south to the end of the Reik or some
other river. There they battle rivals and enemies and seek out Sigmar's
steps which lead the party eventually to an ancient dwarfhold, one level
overrun by the goblins in league with chaos and the second level a floor
haunted by dwarven tragedy. The hold was attacked by a daemon, and Sigmar
warred against the daemon, leapt into the portal, and left his hammer behind
suspended in the gate to keep the daemon from returning. The players,
dabbling with powers beyond their ability, remove the hammer, only to
collapse the gate... raw stuff of chaos pours through and the daemon, a
changer of ways, a greater daemon of Tzeentch burst through to wreak havoc
upon the world.
The characters begin their long journey back, guided by the hammer. By
this time the Empire is at war between Ulricans and Sigmarites. Burned
villages, rampaging armies, gallows with heretics hanging from them, even
cannibals are encountered. Yet the players are guided to Wolfenburg where a
decisive battle is to be waged. Here the characters discover some old
friends (or enemies) and enter into a great battle where the hammer,
following an agenda of its own leads them on the thick of the battle to the
only living descendent of Sigmar, Graf Boris' illegitimate son Heinrich
Todbringer who as soon as he touches the hammer, being a devout follower of
Ulric is blessed by both gods and takes on a manifestation of the Avatar of
Sigmar - the battle is over as both sides are awed by the display of power.
The war is presumably over, and the warring sides come to an agreement
on the battlefield. The Players, in a position of honor head back to the
capital to spread the good news, although the cost of the war is readily
apparent in the death and destruction that the characters continue to
witness.
The daemon defeated by Sigmar however has been plotting on his own. He
has infiltrated the capital and seized the body of the Grand Theogenist
himself and contacted Tzeentchian cults who have infiltrated the Cult of
Sigmar and the Imperial Cult, and a bloody ambush is prepared.
Upon the "new" Emperor's coronation, cultists infiltrate the audience,
and the unwitting Emperor stands before the disguised daemon. The players
bring forth the hammer of Sigmar to present it to the Emperor when suddenly
they realize the deception and a battle breaks out with a huge daemon and
cultists throw off their robes and wage bloody war on the unarmed courtiers.
Upon the defeat of Sigmar's ancient enemy and the salvation of Heinrich
Todbringer, the players are heralded as the saviors of the Empire and earn
their place in the history books.
End of campaign.
> [2] What would people change about EiF to make it a better conclusion
> to TEW. I really hope that James Wallis will tell us all what he had
> planned for Empire in Chaos, but failing that I'd just like some
> general opinions.
Draw the Purple Hand back into the plot. Make the Purple Hand
responsible for the drugging of the Emperor and his insanity. One of their
members is the Emperor's own personal doctor. Make them the cultists that
appear at the end of the coronation as well.
Lose the Pegasus. Boring.
Change the Dwarfen mine. Get the boring goblins and the like out and
instead put the Skaven in, or a group of deaemonolists studying the portal.
A few ideas off the top of my head.
--
Garett
----------------------------------------------------------------
The Warhammer FRP Mailing List
Submissions to : [email protected]
Subscribe/Unsubscribe to : [email protected]
Problems to : [email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines:
<http://www.employees.org/~claycle/WFRP/misc/mlpostingguide.html>
----------------------------------------------------------------
The WFRP List is mirrored and archived on Yahoo Groups:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarhammerFantasyRolePlay>
From: Garett Lepper <***@***>
To: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 23:18:08 -0700
Subject: Re: [WFRP] Empire in Flames Plot *spoilers*
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garett Lepper" <***@***>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 10:59 PM
Subject: [WFRP] Empire in Flames Plot *spoilers*
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jon Brown" <***@***>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 6:20 PM
> Subject: [WFRP] Enemy Within/Private War
There's a few errors, like I forgot the old dead Emperor's name, I
called him Franz Josef or something like that, but I think its:
> over Karl Franz's son and the Emperor's son suddenly betrays a whole
series
There's also a bit about assisting elves by slaying some ectoplasmic
chaos mist, flying around on pegasi later, and meeting some old codger Dwarf
who was around when the Sigmar came by. Aforementioned ancient dwarf is then
slain by daemon the party releases, and the daemon possesses the body of a
dragon and burns down a portion of the capital of Altdorf while the armies
are way fighting, before leaving the body of the dragon to possess on
important notable...
Those are some of the "dodgy" aspects of this scenario.
This adventure is slagged by some. My party quite enjoyed being
peripheral yet critical figures in the struggle of the Empire. Their absence
from some of the important events made them realize that the world does not
revolve around them and there were a few really good ideas in the campaign -
even if it does bog around in a dungeon for a bit and indeed take them a bit
too far from the Empire.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The Warhammer FRP Mailing List
Submissions to : [email protected]
Subscribe/Unsubscribe to : [email protected]
Problems to : [email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines:
<http://www.employees.org/~claycle/WFRP/misc/mlpostingguide.html>
----------------------------------------------------------------
The WFRP List is mirrored and archived on Yahoo Groups:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarhammerFantasyRolePlay>
From: Garett Lepper <***@***>
To: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:54:17 -0800
Subject: Re: [WFRP] Some Spoilers Please
----- Original Message -----
From: ***@***
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WFRP] Some Spoilers Please
> Personally my views on EiF are as follows;
It starts well, then soon disolves into a feeling of important events being
rushed as fast as possible, in order to squeeze the main plot points into
one module. The river journey is largely just one combat encounter after
another (and very deadly combat encounters they are too).<
This is true. The way to get around this is to slip back into DotR mode.
Have them create a disguise, merchants or something and work their way
south. Along the way they can meet a number of PCs from their past along the
river, some of them caught up in the tension that exists in the Empire.
> The dwarven ruined dungeon populated by goblins (double yawn) is very
uninspired,<
Very much so. This is the thing that should be changed most of all - its
just a big hack and slash adventure at this point. A change of enemies and
some intrigue would go a long way to remedying this situation.
> the pegasi section would jar even in my d&d campaign setting<
Dreadful.
> and I don't buy one relic uniting an Empire that is clearly riven by deep
religious and factional differences (aside from the fact that an Imperial
Civil War would be great as a backdrop for numerous adventures and yet gets
seriously skimped over in this book).<
The point is that it isn't a single relic reuniting the Empire - it is
the Relic in the Hands of the Descendent (or Avatar) of Sigmar. In essence,
the line long broken connected to Sigmar is discovered, a matter of great
import.
>EiF is not worth bothering with in my opinion, why should we as wfrp GMs
these days curtail the EW by using EiF when there is clearly plenty of life
in the campaign, just because GW turned it's back on wfrp back when EiF was
originally written and finished the campaign like an axeman at the block?<
I think EiF has a number of great plot twists:
1) The death of the Emperor shook my characters - few of my adventures
have had such a weighty atmosphere.
2) Resolution of the treachery at the heart of the Empire - the Crown
Prince and Todbringer as well as the battle in the hall gave the characters
a real sense of playing a role at pivotal moments of history.
3) The collapse of the warp gates terrified the characters to no end.
4) The impending battle at Wolfenburg had a lot of different encounters
for the players and they enjoyed this as well.
I think all of these were really well executed and could easily form the
basis for a prolonged and epic battle for the players. This stuff is too
good for me to ever think of discarding.
> I look on my campaign as the EW continued, KF is still Emperor, the Purple
Hand still work behind the scenes, the schism between Ulricans and
Sigmarites continues to grown and the Prince is still locked away in Castle
Reikguard (and I don't think I'll make him a mutant - too easy)...brushfire
wars are beginning and perhaps herald an Imperial Civil War and the breaking
of the Empire. ---I would have thought there is ample to do without playing
a glorified sequence of hacks just because GW rushed off a best forgotten
'official' ending to the EW years ago.<
There is no reason that you can't have the Purple Hand in power, a
schism that still exists, a number of important nobles locked away,
brushfire wars and a return to battle, as well as doubts by many that the
Emperor is a fake created by the plotting of sell-swords (the PCs), after
running EiF.
--
Garett
----------------------------------------------------------------
The Warhammer FRP Mailing List
Submissions to : [email protected]
Subscribe/Unsubscribe to : [email protected]
Problems to : [email protected]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines:
<http://www.employees.org/~claycle/WFRP/misc/mlpostingguide.html>
----------------------------------------------------------------
The WFRP List is mirrored and archived on Yahoo Groups:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarhammerFantasyRolePlay>
From: Garett Lepper <***@***> To: <[email protected]> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:13:59 -0800 Subject: Re: [WFRP] lies ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Dunn" <***@***> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: [WFRP] lies > I don't know if anyone else noticed, but James has strongly implied that KF > does in fact still die in EiC, but, the Old World being the old world, his > face is unknown except to the covens of nobility, and so to restore a > facsimile emperor to the throne is a necessary conspiracy carried off with > qualified success. What's more, the Griffon-riding veteran warrior you see > in WFB is not KF either, but rather an experienced knight who lends his > strapping face to the actually decrepit Emperor on the field of battle, and > perhaps in a few parades, now and again. I think his idea went further than this. Page 14 of Carrion Up the Reik has the Grand Theogenist doing a second take on the Kastor Lieberung Look A Like. Apparently Kaster + PC look like someone pretty important in Altdorf? Like the Emperor? His son? Seems to me that Kastor was set up by the Purple Hand to replace the Emperor or some other high personage. A cunning turn of events I think. Something to be integrated into EiF if you so desire... -- Garett ---------------------------------------------------------------- The Warhammer FRP Mailing List Submissions to : [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe to : [email protected] Problems to : [email protected] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Posting Guidelines: <http://www.employees.org/~claycle/WFRP/misc/mlpostingguide.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------- The WFRP List is mirrored and archived on Yahoo Groups: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarhammerFantasyRolePlay>
From: James Wallis <[email protected]> To: WFRP Mailing List <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 16:17:39 +0000 Subject: Re: [WFRP] lies In message , Travis Dunn <[email protected]> writes >I dont know if anyone else noticed, but James has strongly implied that KF >does in fact still die in EiC, but, the Old World being the old world, his >face is unknown except to the covens of nobility, and so to restore a >facsimile emperor to the throne is a necessary conspiracy carried off with >qualified success. That was the core of the plot, yes. It's not that Karl-Franz's face is exactly unknown, but certainly a lookalike (hint hint) could probably pass for him, particularly if it was generally known that the Emperor had recently been greviously wounded/scarred/diseased in an attempted assassination. I suggest watching the Kurosawa movie "Kagemusha" (the Stand-In) for more inspiration, including one of the best battle sequences ever filmed. There were going to be several optional ends to Empire in Chaos, including one where one of the PCs actually becomes the Emperor. Of course they get no free will in the post, they're completely at the mercy of their advisors and behind-the-scenes manipulators, and the first thing they have to do is to exile or imprison the rest of the PCs, since they know the truth... I'd been vaguely plotting a Man In The Iron Mask-style sequel but never got anywhere with it. -- James Wallis [email protected] Director, Hogshead Publishing Ltd http://www.hogshead.demon.co.uk 18-20 Bromell's Road, London SW4 0BG UK T-0207 207 5490 F-0207 207 5491 ---------------------------------------------------------------- The Warhammer FRP Mailing List Submissions to : [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe to : [email protected] Problems to : [email protected] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Posting Guidelines: <http://www.employees.org/~claycle/WFRP/misc/mlpostingguide.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------- The WFRP List is mirrored and archived on Yahoo Groups: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarhammerFantasyRolePlay>
From: James Wallis <[email protected]> To: WFRP Mailing List <[email protected]> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:11:46 +0000 Subject: Re: [WFRP] lies In message , MCV <***@***> writes >James Wallis wrote: > >[ A short summary of what the EiC plot would be like. ] > >Thank you! Together with Garrett's summary, this is exactly >the sort of thing I want to know. Need to know, even, now >that I have to write my own ending to TEW. > >Care to go into further details? Still big battles and a >quest to find a hammer? And what are the other ways in which >the adventure can end? (My guesses are: (un)civil war, Heinrich >as emperor, and maybe the crown prince doesn't have to get >killed and might become emperor?) I don't have much time, but... Something Rotten in Kislev functions like Act IV Scene II (I think) in Macbeth; it gets the PCs somewhere else while changes can happen to the Empire. *** Danger Danger Huge Massive Mother-Buggery Spoilers for the rest of The Enemy Within campaign are contained herein. Abandon hope all ye etc. *** The PCs return. A civil war is brewing; much tension between the north and the south, some of it stirred by the Sons of Ulric. The Graf's daughter is to be married to the Emperor's son in a political union symbolising the bond between the two halves of the country. PCs escort Graf and daughter to Altdorf; collect Clues on way. In Altdorf, integrate in court. Attempted assassination of the Emperor, which the PCs learn by devious means was actually successful (KF is dead) though the word is deliberately being kept back because of fear of starting the war. PCs discover there is another, more clandestine war being fought in Altdorf between the Purple Hand and the Red Crown, both of whom are scheming something bad. This includes all the Kastor Lieberung look-alike stuff, the details of which were very cunning indeed and which I have forgotten. Lieberung does not look like the Emperor, but someone else does. Marriage gets disrupted by what appears to be Northerner guerrilla activity, but in fact is something else (the PCs can discover this). The civil war kicks off. PCs are likely at some time to call in their favour from the Grand Theogonist, because they're having problems with making progress at court. He hands them off to one of his advisors, who is sweetness and light. This is because he's a cultist, and he's manipulating them. Then PCs make some basic discoveries about what's going on, then they make a massive and very public faux-pas (they're forced in a no-win situation and commit an enormous breach of etiquette), and it is suggested they should "quest for Sigmar's hammer" -- make etiquette roll with huge negative modifiers to realise this is court-speak for "go and die quietly somewhere a long way away", the WFRP equivalent of the Long Walk from Judge Dredd. Head out with Father Marcus (from Carrion), who explains prophecies, omens, etc., and that nobody in hell expects them to succeed. Find hammer in a sequence not as bad as the one in EiF. Father Marcus dies in heart-rending scene that wins him the Best Supporting NPC Oscar. PCs return. Find town besieged by Kislevite mercenaries. Recruit them, using contacts and knowledge from SRiK. Head slowly west, gathering forces. Battle. Lift siege of Altdorf. >From there my memory of the linear plot gets a bit fuzzy, but the crux of it all is: The civil war is being provoked by whichever province of the Empire it is that doesn't appear in the WFB maps. They are providing the Sons of Ulric with money and equipment, and also hiring mercenaries (e.g. the Kislevites) while appearing to still be staunch supporters of the south and the Emperor. They are found guilty, and their entire province and lineage is erased. They are not cultists or inspired by Chaos; they have ways of capitalising from the political unrest and the war. Machiavellian sods, the lot of them. The court is riddled with cultists. This is because the Untersuchung has been... no. I'm not going to start posting spoilers for my novel. The Purple Hand's big plan was to get rid of the Emperor (done) and replace him with their own man -- a strong leader is needed to take control and quiet the civil war, and the Electors would agree to that. The PCs think they're about to hit a happy ending when the Emperor-to-be summons them on the eve of his coronation, and then he does the touching- his-nose Purple Hand identification thing to them. Oops. Gotta get rid of him now. The Red Crown want to use the Lieberung look-alike to spoil the Purple Hand's scheme. Offhand I can't remember anything more about the Red Crown scheme but it was a lot more brutal than the PH one, and many more people were going to die if it came off. I also can't remember who it is that the PC reminds the Graf of in "Carrion Up the Reik". The Oldenhaller dynasty was going to make another appearance and cause trouble, I do remember that. Lots of sub-plots, side-digressions and incidents along the way, adding colour and depth to the whole experience. Should the PCs acquire another barge in the course of the adventure, it gets fucking sunk. The Grand Theogonist does not explode during the coronation of the new Emperor, but there is a final climatic and very public fight in which the PCs' honour is restored, etc. etc. because nobody's happy if they don't get to kill something big in the final scene. At no point is the death of the Emperor officially confirmed to the populace at large, so when Karl-Franz reappears at the head of his army having had a miraculous recovery on his sick-bed due to the intercession of the Hammer of Sigmar infusing him with sacred power (it's the lookalike) everyone goes "Oh thank goodness" rather than "Wasn't he dead last week?" Hang on... remembering stuff now... mysterious missing blokey, the one off in the Grey Mountains, comes back towards the climax, with what he claims is the Hammer of Sigmar. He's working for the Machiavellians, he thinks, though it turns out his closest advisor is with the Red Crown. And the uber-bad-guy... because you need one... and the greatest untied thread of the whole campaign, is Karl-Heinz Wasmeier, who very nearly did for the Graf of Middenheim in PBtT. Not only is he behind the whole Purple Hand plot including the Emperor's assassination, but this time he gets the Graf as well. Strong hints he was behind the whole Lieberung situation, and some clarification of his motivations. The Emperor's son is not a mutant. Can't remember the reason for the Emperor's leniency on mutants. It's swiftly revoked, anyway. My notes are still around here somewhere, I think, if we haven't already chucked them in the tidy-out frenzy of closing down the office. If I find them I'll see if I can fill in any of the blanks. Overall tone was going to be half-way between Len Deighton's 60s spy novels, Machiavelli's the Prince, and some of the nastier bits of Clive Barker. It was going to retain bits of the structure of EiF but essentially none of its text. Hope that clarifies stuff. -- James Wallis [email protected] Director, Hogshead Publishing Ltd http://www.hogshead.demon.co.uk 18-20 Bromell's Road, London SW4 0BG UK T-0207 207 5490 F-0207 207 5491 ---------------------------------------------------------------- The Warhammer FRP Mailing List Submissions to : [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe to : [email protected] Problems to : [email protected] ---------------------------------------------------------------- Posting Guidelines: <http://www.employees.org/~claycle/WFRP/misc/mlpostingguide.html> ---------------------------------------------------------------- The WFRP List is mirrored and archived on Yahoo Groups: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarhammerFantasyRolePlay>